This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add. N0 D% ^2 Q# o) P
; Y& s# |. `+ ^: w! EHe started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a - o& h; T. Q- @% c/ N1 u
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cmm talk about programming one. / D0 z( [& B$ n* [/ P. O D# Z
! [, H- q$ B6 R6 ~I've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.
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Maybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like
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you...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so ( W* e7 y, A: _
7 W* l* ~; c y/ D; j! @* Wthat I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works
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4 N+ [, ]9 Z/ H9 mfor.
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The only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so 2 G" T' x3 a" a; p( b
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that they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly
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pray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on. ; r5 M9 r0 R$ d1 O
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: c. F3 v3 f9 d. d+ S9 \这一个人基本上没有经验，而你们正在免费通过互联网完整培训他，我可能稍微增加点难度。 ( B+ J, R2 Z% v
& f' W- l, u d他从自己校正他的机器的各种非常愚蠢的主意开始，现在我们容易看出他一个甚至不能正确操作cmm的人。
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我做出牺牲,阅读一堆章节并被他开始问各种荒谬最基本的cmm 观念。7 U" f" Q4 s( ~: p! g
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可能我应该更加接纳他刚进来就说:我基本对cmm了解为零,但是我成为你那样...你能帮助我吗?我从那里开始?但是我发现自己不停的被问的吃惊.我完全理解,当我得到这个故事必
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然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即将发生倒闭
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我看他服务的公司最后的结果是财务破产作为他'程序'的一部分他们计划调整这部分以便他们在cmm报告中看起来好点.他们把这个给客户.最多被拒绝或者在使用中完全失败.当我
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读他那职位的时候,我真诚的起到他不是做方向盘或者转向制动器,安全带....这个列表继续' P6 B+ \) a& y3 A4 \
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6 e1 i% X1 I5 D( vI (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade. 8 f' L( t! M; j8 M5 u& p* t
/ s( @, G3 V9 }- tLet's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.
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: Z4 q/ G9 i9 Z) `Nope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.# ?% v/ Y5 v5 g' D2 I8 q6 u
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In fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that
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he's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE
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THE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!
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Analogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The
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car's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?
3 w% k4 a9 D' a, B7 d我(象你们中很多人一样）是一个经过专门培训对质量吹毛求疵的专业人士。
. n6 `. E8 z$ {/ g, f9 f如果我能找任何的错误或的问题任何事，让我们见到那一个区段已经在他的最后职位中陈述。7 q9 `6 I$ Z/ e( j+ n, r
不，不能在错误中找一些线索。 我将会说，他脑子坏掉了。
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$ i6 L4 ]. u( q* [5 s/ p2 A8 N+ o事实上,我在过去怀疑过很长时间这个家伙是不是真的是一个有经验的cmm怪人,他仅仅是打乱我们的思路,但是我确认他是一个卓越的人.这是不用讨论的,他的情况应该被当作一个5 X) N+ `# D! f& ]1 U; s4 o
$ g% n ]4 ]- I7 M: {优秀的学习案例:为什么鉴定为cmm怪人,就想机器一样
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: O4 r/ g' P: a- X类似：如果一辆车辆已经被检查，登记以及许可，它为什么不是最佳状态？ 为什么那操作员应该被训练而且得到许可的？ 小车还好，所有的工作都一样！ 操作员仅仅是凑凑热闹5 ]& y- s" X/ ~! s0 q$ N! N
1 K, x" W$ s/ X% |$ P! [，对不对？ 怎么会出错？
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hi,& B" {/ _/ o8 \ i* X
i think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people.
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E' L3 D# A( P* J嗨，
; Z% {* M* v- Q0 `" V! n我认为，你们是从我这郁闷.我真的抱歉。但是还是感激帮助者。 6 G8 o' h: z4 C% f" q0 l
& {# `, D F. ~, w _* @) kmy machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results $ I* _ o/ w, n1 O& P
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at the end? 7 v$ L5 B) J2 F
我的机器测量一个标准环规小了3微米.是不是有选项去手动补偿或我不得不在最后把它加入到结果？
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Is that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?! N4 E; M; U8 l8 ]9 c
3微米是不是小于名义值，或3微米小于环规的校准结果？, r. |) V8 |5 Z% u
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its the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm. % A7 {( t% K0 K% ? i7 M
正常。如果已经被标定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 读数为10.06mm。 * ]! |0 _+ m. l+ [' K1 l- u& y5 ~# S' }
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k7 J; A3 W+ J. [. {, s10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006. - c9 T; ]9 u8 S4 ]
/ `: O8 \; e* W* p8 n# j5 }! mPerhaps you meant 10.006?1 E* k1 b! L& l
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Is your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the " S: r! M& r- p# H
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stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the ) }. i2 O4 ?3 K
* l4 \. v, I) `( B) Eoptimal "attack angle".
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- S. r7 |7 I9 l) QOnce you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the . U1 z, I6 n( r
/ f! p/ p) i6 [/ n+ e' ?ring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times
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(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If , s6 a" g. V, s
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it's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong. $ a$ T0 Z `; h o/ y& ~
3 _3 D/ D" K. ~5 h$ h5 nIf it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.
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10.06是60个微米。六个微米是.006 。 7 x$ P2 R1 k- p( w0 f/ e
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可能你认为是10.006?! k3 \# c1 w4 `6 g( R# x+ ]; u
你的cmm是自动还是手动？ 如果它是手动，我的建议是放弃它同时再买台真正的cmm 。如果它是自动, 那么确信你有建议一个探针校正程序。 确定在标准球上的测量正确的。 确
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定点是以正确的位置和最佳的法线角度去接触标准球.7 R9 @) Y! M' t3 ~
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一旦你有一个校准测头的程序,你应该做一些测试.校准探针和检查环规多次。测量中重新调整环规位置。在测量中你可能想重复调整它但是小心不要影响它的温度" O- |) l# Y' [9 ^, l
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然后，重复这整个程序多次（包括重复校准探针） 如果在这里你见到的差异超过.003mm(我预计它会）, 那么你看到的这3个微米是噪音。如果它是超过.03mm, 那么那些地方可能# \4 {& ?6 {( ]! `% J
, a: E4 R% S2 K5 r# P+ X' [有错误。 0 f8 T( j S$ c1 u% b6 X/ r3 ^! A
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如果它处于中间，同时你想更要的效果.如果可能的，试一个较短的测针。 ; Q! O2 z: J: J U3 J
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Agreed Ken,1 V5 [. }- O' ^7 J! L/ K
The biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I
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realise the choice is not always there.
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I always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder
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* {: ^) d4 ^, Oto the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure.
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The other matters to add up are,
g- C5 p) E$ ythe uncertainty of measurement of the machine :
5 _9 a' \% |# B3 ?% A7 V7 d0 i3 S/ `- Pthe actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ):
# t$ E$ J/ q! z/ a& Sthe algorithm used for the dia result :, p4 [+ I2 F L: e- W/ N9 Z
room conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :( ^3 p- |; `5 a$ C8 u6 a0 v
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* ^" S2 u2 Z0 B- S5 YGood luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere.
" e. r: l' \( t4 E同意肯恩，! k( s" p2 z+ D$ U- \" a A
这个方法最好是用最大的球茎和最短的探针长度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20会也减小效果，但是我认为问题并不在那里。 % z( `# ^! M: u* e: u7 y
& z2 g" j1 p0 q" r4 W0 P我总是通过环规的中心设置我的基准面(测量圆柱),虽然这些环规从圆柱到外圆面是非常一致的,单你仅仅是不确 % r) p+ F$ l9 W. d3 N* o. ^, x X( f8 q
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其他因素加起来是，
, u/ \# a U+ v4 p2 l机器的测量的不确定： 6 B0 }% i5 u; q4 p
环规实际的校准结果（不是被标的值）: / @ s2 k& B' v/ `7 Z# M
结果圆的运算法则：
: s- K: [' V! k0 I& u: S4 m房间环境（临时湿度） :
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G.P找到的3微米误差就在里面,祝你幸运!
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# Z" K+ {# K5 z8 j* IIs it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right? + b _3 M- l9 ^6 U. R9 U) \
% L( I2 e# G9 {+ X' q在直径测量之前有必要定位环规。我已经某处读我们需要制造 对准直径测量.是吗？ , X3 m8 T, `! e) ~$ a+ z$ A
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/ C0 p8 p2 _. @4 q; |, ~! YIt's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns,
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then use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface. ; Q0 D4 n4 n9 P; ]1 k0 A1 M
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That includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia./ a5 i9 @4 \ T' s# R
+ n/ O0 Z/ o' a$ d$ T' f! K: iAs a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ? * a! Z8 j f" a: B. @- w
它只是我个人的意见 G.P. ，如果你想尝试达到3个微米，
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使用所有的方法(尽力而为),在测量任意一个点都要垂直于表面。 ! F/ H" j1 u7 Z9 x' n+ F- l; G/ Y
4 Y* I' }5 p0 [+ e7 \! Y那包括在测量直径之前排校准环规。+ w+ U: O: G2 _: }! b
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稍微有点好奇，环规校准报告说环规尺寸是所少？ , w) P1 Z* ]/ Z& s* A
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2 _& j) Z4 j% w* A* n+ J; b" lI would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage. 7 q* d! v/ t( T5 s! b, _8 \5 \
0 n# i( Q# z, M1 M- o. O6 k我会把它作为一个圆柱来测量。设定我的坐标系为圆柱坐标系同时在环规中逐渐提高测量圆
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* f4 c. Q% V1 S* K# pYou are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!
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What type of machine? Manual or CNC
$ N5 N% k y( \& s \8 zWhat type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP200
3 e4 ^( U+ }: m6 r( jWhat length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm& ~8 [% `: |; F
What is the temperature in the room?
M$ ]) a% n% w( }- E+ |: k2 C0 zWhat diameter is the ring gauge? H/ _, \3 k6 l3 K( ~
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Let's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5 * J( O; S7 i" S" ~. p
3 Y4 v/ p& Z" ^/ e$ Fpeople breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.; X3 M8 n4 t2 ~, L. C3 A" K6 w
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你试图测量一个直径只有3微米的偏差？！7 e$ }8 A! ~2 }9 M5 v
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哪类机器？手动或自动
X4 C7 F, x s1 ]. Y哪类探头？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP200! e8 z n$ p0 ?- u, W( P
探针长度为多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米# [ D$ z( J# |% ~5 B7 G8 K/ b1 e/ j
房间中，温度多少？: F! J" e& @; g
环规直径为多少？
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% Y1 q) a) N3 R- ^让我们正视它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果机器的附近站立的1个人呼吸 真和明天5个人呼吸都能影响你的测量。 |
楼主: 吟啸徐行
发表于 2009-3-16 19:15:15
