This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add. 6 V; g5 O' t( H- |: a/ T" N
; [! U/ n4 c( dHe started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a
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& ]& D9 o* Y3 ^5 a: [$ K) }6 D4 h3 }/ dcmm talk about programming one.
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" ]4 H2 ]3 G% c7 V0 II've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.
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Maybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like $ I2 t* a9 y5 I/ t8 h3 G
3 z5 `# [. W$ X: Z: J3 ?& N- ]you...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so 6 }, m& d4 V! x% H$ n) Q9 C; c
+ Q0 ?! u# L4 V7 j' {3 a) u* v/ L( _5 d, Lthat I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works
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% o- K) k; h$ ~6 E2 d, Ofor. $ i/ Y Z' D1 z( A" A
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The only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so 7 x4 ] } m2 D7 S) o: R
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that they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly
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pray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on. ; e0 W6 h; Q2 |1 o8 }# _
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% O4 T7 A% A' H, `1 } K这一个人基本上没有经验，而你们正在免费通过互联网完整培训他，我可能稍微增加点难度。 1 G( j6 f; J8 p: U: U' [' r; B2 Q
8 x% v5 d' Z z D! U他从自己校正他的机器的各种非常愚蠢的主意开始，现在我们容易看出他一个甚至不能正确操作cmm的人。
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我做出牺牲,阅读一堆章节并被他开始问各种荒谬最基本的cmm 观念。
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: P" e$ q& T" o9 E可能我应该更加接纳他刚进来就说:我基本对cmm了解为零,但是我成为你那样...你能帮助我吗?我从那里开始?但是我发现自己不停的被问的吃惊.我完全理解,当我得到这个故事必) n2 B" @7 I+ v. B. ]4 K, q
+ c! |, G% l" u! I: {然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即将发生倒闭' \1 T, t1 a# `) X
( S" _& F# n; Y# ^; z% a6 {2 ^! }我看他服务的公司最后的结果是财务破产作为他'程序'的一部分他们计划调整这部分以便他们在cmm报告中看起来好点.他们把这个给客户.最多被拒绝或者在使用中完全失败.当我
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读他那职位的时候,我真诚的起到他不是做方向盘或者转向制动器,安全带....这个列表继续
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I (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade.
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Let's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.
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Nope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.% k7 s1 G% b' `2 `0 D$ p
( m! s( r( U3 ^3 h' j$ W% rIn fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that * q$ H" ]$ @1 _7 L; G& I
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he's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE
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& H/ D. F: g) y s9 S8 LTHE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!
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Analogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The 9 Y+ t. D/ X& Q4 M3 C* N5 ]
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car's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?
, x3 l; H5 u& O' ?, Z3 l我(象你们中很多人一样）是一个经过专门培训对质量吹毛求疵的专业人士。 " N6 [ ^$ \. K# D
如果我能找任何的错误或的问题任何事，让我们见到那一个区段已经在他的最后职位中陈述。
% B: Q4 I, R A( `不，不能在错误中找一些线索。 我将会说，他脑子坏掉了。- A, b: S6 Y3 g( ]: @% }8 U. Q. ^
% e3 ^% ^" a/ o& n! h3 I事实上,我在过去怀疑过很长时间这个家伙是不是真的是一个有经验的cmm怪人,他仅仅是打乱我们的思路,但是我确认他是一个卓越的人.这是不用讨论的,他的情况应该被当作一个
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) ?: i, m$ p7 `+ O1 m% I; j7 c优秀的学习案例:为什么鉴定为cmm怪人,就想机器一样- w9 l" N0 L. Q; z
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类似：如果一辆车辆已经被检查，登记以及许可，它为什么不是最佳状态？ 为什么那操作员应该被训练而且得到许可的？ 小车还好，所有的工作都一样！ 操作员仅仅是凑凑热闹1 r0 w$ O+ O7 I, {+ l' v7 G! Z! U
) k% Q' P2 R# v" {，对不对？ 怎么会出错？
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hi,
+ p! h' X, X% Y# a' a. Yi think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people. 7 x% Z3 J8 s3 I7 J
GoldenPine
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我认为，你们是从我这郁闷.我真的抱歉。但是还是感激帮助者。
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6 t# E" E! N! Pmy machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results 1 ~: h( ]/ V4 y \4 Z' n
5 _. l2 P; o2 y d* s, K9 V1 Bat the end? , a4 _( ?& c& s2 x6 z
我的机器测量一个标准环规小了3微米.是不是有选项去手动补偿或我不得不在最后把它加入到结果？ * H9 g$ y! ?& S q3 e
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Is that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?) Y3 K1 ^+ ?0 F
3微米是不是小于名义值，或3微米小于环规的校准结果？
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its the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm. % G" l5 U8 M% V+ `0 x
正常。如果已经被标定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 读数为10.06mm。 . H7 r3 L; |7 @1 D& X
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10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006. : E9 |) ~! H5 g. z! M
7 F/ S" J% b% K, cPerhaps you meant 10.006?. }0 y' w! N* A
: N& e. d' r0 l; r L/ OIs your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the
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stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the
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optimal "attack angle". 5 d. `7 j0 z# I
0 c1 ]! ^3 H6 o1 g! @( ROnce you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the
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) R% }# O2 o8 ]3 ~. @. R( xring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times
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0 l( L' N3 r" I: ^9 U(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If ! s/ N% G+ T' H" A
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it's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong. ; [7 z# y) z) G) v( h3 w
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If it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.
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10.06是60个微米。六个微米是.006 。 ' s1 ~; _7 r: L9 {& ?( `% a, p
5 a& `, L: N- b. N% R3 s1 @可能你认为是10.006?
) K6 H# f0 T+ S* r& a2 \6 p你的cmm是自动还是手动？ 如果它是手动，我的建议是放弃它同时再买台真正的cmm 。如果它是自动, 那么确信你有建议一个探针校正程序。 确定在标准球上的测量正确的。 确
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' R- L3 {' q2 q. R定点是以正确的位置和最佳的法线角度去接触标准球.% l5 X3 c# W8 \) g' o* M4 r- ?
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一旦你有一个校准测头的程序,你应该做一些测试.校准探针和检查环规多次。测量中重新调整环规位置。在测量中你可能想重复调整它但是小心不要影响它的温度
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7 P- u; s6 z; g$ G然后，重复这整个程序多次（包括重复校准探针） 如果在这里你见到的差异超过.003mm(我预计它会）, 那么你看到的这3个微米是噪音。如果它是超过.03mm, 那么那些地方可能
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有错误。
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如果它处于中间，同时你想更要的效果.如果可能的，试一个较短的测针。
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Agreed Ken,
' x# k; F) ^0 S# o, MThe biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I & n8 e/ @3 N6 k9 A" ?
6 J: J, p! Z0 r, z/ L: B- E, Trealise the choice is not always there. : J4 @5 z ]% `& T. C
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I always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder
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h8 q) H: W" l1 V: Zto the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure. , c# o/ ^; V7 o5 X& G- ]
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The other matters to add up are, - H, A! C. \% M$ m* P
the uncertainty of measurement of the machine :
: D5 W V. A( y6 c2 |the actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ):
$ C7 r, m7 ^/ w/ ^3 x% [1 T- Kthe algorithm used for the dia result :
1 h+ p6 e: M" Y* S# |room conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :! x* o) n. r- Q4 t; [: [- z
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Good luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere. - P9 Y1 ]0 I) z7 V6 H' F) r$ |* D
同意肯恩，
$ @* c% M5 F0 a( M2 \这个方法最好是用最大的球茎和最短的探针长度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20会也减小效果，但是我认为问题并不在那里。
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4 j2 I6 `+ M( H) q+ j我总是通过环规的中心设置我的基准面(测量圆柱),虽然这些环规从圆柱到外圆面是非常一致的,单你仅仅是不确 ) d, R4 b4 x; J+ \
% z# O, T& `' d其他因素加起来是， + w7 y) G/ {6 [
机器的测量的不确定：
$ r; e1 @0 p6 d0 i: t环规实际的校准结果（不是被标的值）: 8 X/ T; I- q( x
结果圆的运算法则：
( ~1 u/ l& g; T* T3 P7 A房间环境（临时湿度） :
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2 v2 i) w7 i7 @8 W( y/ ~G.P找到的3微米误差就在里面,祝你幸运!
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* `& E9 A" F. J7 fIs it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right?
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! A3 F, @: `. h4 O: v在直径测量之前有必要定位环规。我已经某处读我们需要制造 对准直径测量.是吗？ * i) x7 S1 A, q/ `" {9 R5 J) _4 L: F
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' J9 V( {0 g6 V, C7 k7 vIt's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns,
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then use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface. 0 H: k$ m- O$ b F/ S! ~
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That includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.) Z/ t3 A1 [" }; v9 L6 E" D. P( F
S; {- h: I. O! eAs a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ? & _, e/ A( Y# D% L y
它只是我个人的意见 G.P. ，如果你想尝试达到3个微米，
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使用所有的方法(尽力而为),在测量任意一个点都要垂直于表面。 7 K2 ]& N* N4 M1 x6 q% H; e
; C3 Y$ O$ c3 V; G* E那包括在测量直径之前排校准环规。
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, k. \; C1 |6 b5 O稍微有点好奇，环规校准报告说环规尺寸是所少？ : ^- M7 B; ]7 R& l
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0 Z7 ^' E" e3 v: {$ u- ]I would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage. " x; R$ g6 M5 u
4 X. Q/ t7 h% U, Q" I我会把它作为一个圆柱来测量。设定我的坐标系为圆柱坐标系同时在环规中逐渐提高测量圆& j) D; W3 r. B. a$ }- X; [! ?) `
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3 [. @% i8 N! I# y1 mYou are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!; Z- T5 b; u/ B. m' e/ `& P
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What type of machine? Manual or CNC
; C! q$ D% i8 ]What type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP2009 L( E1 ^1 h2 S) O Q; R
What length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm: Z9 G$ z$ g6 ?0 X, b
What is the temperature in the room?
; v Z7 {. c: p' [What diameter is the ring gauge?, w( Q! K+ i5 P9 E* v
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Let's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5 ; K) S/ D4 B8 Q. _# t
/ Q9 b2 L! W/ s/ K5 r6 tpeople breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.
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% b/ V0 D6 ~/ K/ l" L) c$ B, v% w你试图测量一个直径只有3微米的偏差？！
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哪类机器？手动或自动2 \& v2 Z+ P1 D6 c8 ` I- D: ?& z
哪类探头？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP200
& r8 G" `% t! G4 M3 K: k探针长度为多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米4 b/ y5 A2 N! v; z' }
房间中，温度多少？- l* _' L( F9 o" g
环规直径为多少？
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0 { \% Y+ b/ ?8 ]- L" @% h让我们正视它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果机器的附近站立的1个人呼吸 真和明天5个人呼吸都能影响你的测量。 |
楼主: 吟啸徐行
楼主
发表于 2009-3-16 19:15:15
