This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add. ; k! d% q3 O6 r, o
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He started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a * c$ ^ y3 X8 F7 c$ D
1 j' d8 z2 s. B0 icmm talk about programming one. , e/ g2 |( T$ @ }+ _
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I've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.4 k( \9 W1 U: g2 q1 a3 v ]9 g
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Maybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like 5 P* T: r9 A& B+ D0 M* y0 Y
) K9 r: K3 F/ T. M O( Byou...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so
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that I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works
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for. 5 B3 h& ~& p$ ~, Z; H8 j
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The only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so ' @; Q( [" W' a0 B3 W- ?( V$ h
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that they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly 8 |# A5 _0 R2 ]( r) v* n/ G* d( l
# k5 l( a+ l# K- }/ ~( U- \5 m( z* apray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on. " g& x2 ^# A7 W$ d) ^; z
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) ~; V' j- D \这一个人基本上没有经验，而你们正在免费通过互联网完整培训他，我可能稍微增加点难度。
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他从自己校正他的机器的各种非常愚蠢的主意开始，现在我们容易看出他一个甚至不能正确操作cmm的人。 ' i0 D' t. ~% {1 L b
' m5 ^1 K |/ j- j! E! V& k, r我做出牺牲,阅读一堆章节并被他开始问各种荒谬最基本的cmm 观念。
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可能我应该更加接纳他刚进来就说:我基本对cmm了解为零,但是我成为你那样...你能帮助我吗?我从那里开始?但是我发现自己不停的被问的吃惊.我完全理解,当我得到这个故事必6 A, I& K" y0 S8 I4 n( p
; \3 v: [! T# W1 c然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即将发生倒闭
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我看他服务的公司最后的结果是财务破产作为他'程序'的一部分他们计划调整这部分以便他们在cmm报告中看起来好点.他们把这个给客户.最多被拒绝或者在使用中完全失败.当我
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读他那职位的时候,我真诚的起到他不是做方向盘或者转向制动器,安全带....这个列表继续0 ]4 _0 J; F" X/ x! {; i: l% a, E
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I (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade.
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Let's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.
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Nope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.
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& e. w) z! z( L) [/ KIn fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that
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he's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE
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4 ?; H. E# @' G% P6 D* q. HTHE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!
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Analogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The
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car's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong? E( n! [% a6 K
我(象你们中很多人一样）是一个经过专门培训对质量吹毛求疵的专业人士。
9 W$ m3 P# ^, [7 D- N如果我能找任何的错误或的问题任何事，让我们见到那一个区段已经在他的最后职位中陈述。7 G7 z0 w, ?) K9 O l5 @" t
不，不能在错误中找一些线索。 我将会说，他脑子坏掉了。
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事实上,我在过去怀疑过很长时间这个家伙是不是真的是一个有经验的cmm怪人,他仅仅是打乱我们的思路,但是我确认他是一个卓越的人.这是不用讨论的,他的情况应该被当作一个8 P: N0 d1 @. Q3 _$ O+ y8 ~) y
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优秀的学习案例:为什么鉴定为cmm怪人,就想机器一样) m& e( g# z1 F. x, ^( S
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类似：如果一辆车辆已经被检查，登记以及许可，它为什么不是最佳状态？ 为什么那操作员应该被训练而且得到许可的？ 小车还好，所有的工作都一样！ 操作员仅仅是凑凑热闹
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& H2 l6 k+ X$ v( g* o- y" z，对不对？ 怎么会出错？, L3 j5 B) j* Q, b) f+ z- Z, g
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! V- \5 C8 d) ?( V3 P( D9 C4 Ni think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people.
# ]' E3 U( ^3 W9 eGoldenPine U3 S7 M; n$ L6 B+ n/ w, v
8 ~8 g1 S6 l9 p* N- r嗨，2 W5 h9 S1 E+ i; V+ P1 T
我认为，你们是从我这郁闷.我真的抱歉。但是还是感激帮助者。 / A( }0 K0 ^% Y$ m2 C7 A
( i, e4 f9 V8 ?% O- n4 I* n Qmy machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results
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$ E6 _$ p* ~9 U0 vat the end?
4 E" Q9 O; t2 C9 c& K5 ~我的机器测量一个标准环规小了3微米.是不是有选项去手动补偿或我不得不在最后把它加入到结果？
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Is that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?
, P& L# u7 `% ~ D0 ?3微米是不是小于名义值，或3微米小于环规的校准结果？2 L2 W& D: U% h* Q2 r Q
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its the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm.
3 u9 b' A2 Q6 i7 }$ ~正常。如果已经被标定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 读数为10.06mm。
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10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006. 3 l l* P3 T) R7 g* G7 e% l- [3 l
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Perhaps you meant 10.006?% y2 ?% H6 R% @
/ [6 _5 V7 H4 t* uIs your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the
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. }" x" S8 t! {% B: j9 estylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the , X" I4 j3 p, P4 l4 v
. a/ Q$ W/ _) Roptimal "attack angle".
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2 R. ?' W+ f4 a4 ~% @) h1 \/ l, cOnce you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the
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N U5 r% `& H# |1 N8 Y# M- m6 Bring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times
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1 [4 B& {9 E$ R(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If
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' f8 g ^. U: J7 d2 m3 m( n) wit's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong.
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If it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus. 9 F) }; A# F4 [4 V. j r0 Y
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10.06是60个微米。六个微米是.006 。
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可能你认为是10.006?4 X- H" h0 X* Q( K, \
你的cmm是自动还是手动？ 如果它是手动，我的建议是放弃它同时再买台真正的cmm 。如果它是自动, 那么确信你有建议一个探针校正程序。 确定在标准球上的测量正确的。 确
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# Y+ v, H" D- W! n b H定点是以正确的位置和最佳的法线角度去接触标准球.
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. J U9 C8 e; A1 Z+ w9 i7 o% F# q一旦你有一个校准测头的程序,你应该做一些测试.校准探针和检查环规多次。测量中重新调整环规位置。在测量中你可能想重复调整它但是小心不要影响它的温度
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然后，重复这整个程序多次（包括重复校准探针） 如果在这里你见到的差异超过.003mm(我预计它会）, 那么你看到的这3个微米是噪音。如果它是超过.03mm, 那么那些地方可能) _9 M6 A0 s8 F1 M$ w* m+ m
- \8 K. D, U# [) ]0 V& [ F3 J4 f! r有错误。 # k+ P+ B$ B7 b2 S
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如果它处于中间，同时你想更要的效果.如果可能的，试一个较短的测针。
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3 K1 W" Z4 \7 k, ?0 X1 DAgreed Ken,% L. y: [' v! ^( ^
The biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I
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realise the choice is not always there. - q# }' a2 i: w, K( d0 H k
$ B$ d+ w* h O/ Y9 dI always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder
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& \" w+ {! g. \to the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure. $ b2 \5 r5 s& [( n
6 N! r3 b# S# Z, u3 HThe other matters to add up are, ; V3 { p9 R5 F2 V3 x. F$ A4 U8 I P! O
the uncertainty of measurement of the machine : 7 p2 `. y- m4 l4 ?7 l3 R
the actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ):
9 c; Z% g* o! \6 y3 P$ D# }the algorithm used for the dia result :6 o' `# Z$ d3 i
room conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :
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$ S5 {) Q- h8 c4 uGood luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere. . C# E& t4 ~7 W- z8 i4 P
同意肯恩，
8 H* \1 o* w% e% m7 Q8 j这个方法最好是用最大的球茎和最短的探针长度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20会也减小效果，但是我认为问题并不在那里。 8 X6 n; ]) ]; v6 f# [/ T. t) o4 @
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我总是通过环规的中心设置我的基准面(测量圆柱),虽然这些环规从圆柱到外圆面是非常一致的,单你仅仅是不确
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其他因素加起来是，
5 n3 U$ @0 W/ l8 p机器的测量的不确定：
* K- [" @+ p0 J环规实际的校准结果（不是被标的值）:
) F5 \. K6 E+ O. o结果圆的运算法则：4 h3 j2 D- d- H, R& u, f+ J, m2 i
房间环境（临时湿度） :
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G.P找到的3微米误差就在里面,祝你幸运! / M2 W" x, A8 a2 `1 l' B
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Is it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right?
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在直径测量之前有必要定位环规。我已经某处读我们需要制造 对准直径测量.是吗？
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9 Q$ L$ t' m7 w! K) }It's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns, % w6 L0 ^) w5 K8 z
) u k2 M1 v$ j# c& Hthen use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface. 1 `: d% ~& M/ P/ p* o
2 w' p* N6 B5 oThat includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.3 N) n. f6 E5 ~3 y$ t# w0 z
5 |' |' y' p& o- XAs a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ?
6 D; w# @0 \6 `; R3 x它只是我个人的意见 G.P. ，如果你想尝试达到3个微米，
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使用所有的方法(尽力而为),在测量任意一个点都要垂直于表面。
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+ O6 T9 J& W9 `1 F( r2 J, X那包括在测量直径之前排校准环规。
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稍微有点好奇，环规校准报告说环规尺寸是所少？ ! I) h; s, W5 m! U5 S/ Q2 z
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. ?# D, `9 C d( k6 V2 KI would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage. 0 J. u' |! j! e1 U* N6 c* _
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我会把它作为一个圆柱来测量。设定我的坐标系为圆柱坐标系同时在环规中逐渐提高测量圆
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You are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!2 Z- h" s/ p' U# g9 b
b$ l" k# K4 hWhat type of machine? Manual or CNC
: ~7 K; i% {! M) s2 K [# [What type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP200, h0 f3 z$ T; N* K
What length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm
, ], W/ z: z) B/ V$ `( {( C" g$ U3 mWhat is the temperature in the room?
. q- S! q& H( h0 P0 B: |3 @) ]What diameter is the ring gauge?4 ], E! d0 Z% ~' s
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Let's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5 1 A" x/ Z. H5 @ c0 h8 n
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people breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.. J- p4 c, \: a H( K, n- X. b
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你试图测量一个直径只有3微米的偏差？！) T& Q/ s6 @! ]( \3 m( _
5 C% B+ Y) Y5 x哪类机器？手动或自动* {( Z, h1 e4 x+ \
哪类探头？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP200
" t% t+ |" Q* ?4 M探针长度为多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米/ g8 Y) F# Q5 x0 D) ]
房间中，温度多少？
) ]# a6 F K+ f) E2 h2 i; A" j; ^环规直径为多少？, K8 M0 }: C3 ?! o7 L6 X: |8 e
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让我们正视它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果机器的附近站立的1个人呼吸 真和明天5个人呼吸都能影响你的测量。 |
楼主: 吟啸徐行
发表于 2009-3-16 19:15:15
