This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add.
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He started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a
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. J1 h% w% [$ W, a- Z" m" m9 pcmm talk about programming one. 0 U1 F! r- a7 @
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I've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.4 J0 U, q! @) J8 _ P
! M$ i9 S5 I- m ]Maybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like : v; `% m6 ?1 ~2 a; m3 g, B# o
. f8 T2 N9 x4 g) x! i' Iyou...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so
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& }" X* [, {) U' C3 Q1 U* ithat I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works # U- f* q, d! L
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The only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so
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that they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly : ?3 ] p1 X6 ?0 f
2 s7 v3 E T }7 B$ [pray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on.
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! X# {$ i C- G0 z5 h8 C- j这一个人基本上没有经验，而你们正在免费通过互联网完整培训他，我可能稍微增加点难度。 % l+ I) [9 E$ ^( t
7 S; S& k( \- W; d, c2 i他从自己校正他的机器的各种非常愚蠢的主意开始，现在我们容易看出他一个甚至不能正确操作cmm的人。 % z; [) c! P9 R5 P
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我做出牺牲,阅读一堆章节并被他开始问各种荒谬最基本的cmm 观念。 e8 b# J2 }7 D5 J6 V. u
], J$ m8 q; \/ e# a c$ \7 k可能我应该更加接纳他刚进来就说:我基本对cmm了解为零,但是我成为你那样...你能帮助我吗?我从那里开始?但是我发现自己不停的被问的吃惊.我完全理解,当我得到这个故事必% K+ t% b& |, @3 C
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然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即将发生倒闭
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我看他服务的公司最后的结果是财务破产作为他'程序'的一部分他们计划调整这部分以便他们在cmm报告中看起来好点.他们把这个给客户.最多被拒绝或者在使用中完全失败.当我) p9 P6 n+ X7 V1 l: j% W6 Q4 V
' G) Q8 N2 y# p6 E! J读他那职位的时候,我真诚的起到他不是做方向盘或者转向制动器,安全带....这个列表继续
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. I: n# U5 s0 i# hI (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade. * ?; L9 J3 }. r# _, S+ l
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Let's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.2 \ K0 M' T/ c" j
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3 _ Z6 P' h3 t, [. t+ ANope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.
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; N& n4 i: b- C& v9 \$ N0 pIn fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that
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he's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE $ I' E# x" U; _ w
8 j- W* e- G1 a9 b: d8 ATHE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!! ~7 a. g! J% @7 o8 i/ k9 S6 F9 i% [
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Analogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The - [9 q) `( e% y% C& K
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car's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?$ L* L' t; x) R/ u" m
我(象你们中很多人一样）是一个经过专门培训对质量吹毛求疵的专业人士。
+ B! v( Q' m d如果我能找任何的错误或的问题任何事，让我们见到那一个区段已经在他的最后职位中陈述。( W# [ v. [. A1 l
不，不能在错误中找一些线索。 我将会说，他脑子坏掉了。
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事实上,我在过去怀疑过很长时间这个家伙是不是真的是一个有经验的cmm怪人,他仅仅是打乱我们的思路,但是我确认他是一个卓越的人.这是不用讨论的,他的情况应该被当作一个
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* h0 j+ \" m& @% r( Z1 {5 a优秀的学习案例:为什么鉴定为cmm怪人,就想机器一样5 _: R' C a+ T5 M
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类似：如果一辆车辆已经被检查，登记以及许可，它为什么不是最佳状态？ 为什么那操作员应该被训练而且得到许可的？ 小车还好，所有的工作都一样！ 操作员仅仅是凑凑热闹/ j0 E2 U5 l* d. b8 b; F
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，对不对？ 怎么会出错？
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hi,! K$ ^% Z: l7 r8 Y+ }+ h+ @$ \- b
i think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people.
, ~: Q2 B8 m# {6 N( R l7 C( K& TGoldenPine
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8 N4 ?% X9 t1 w" F) n; f嗨，
" _+ |5 X" ?- t( E我认为，你们是从我这郁闷.我真的抱歉。但是还是感激帮助者。 ' m4 z3 W, W. v5 ]7 o2 o0 l* Y
" }* F% O0 W. s8 z) n8 Qmy machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results
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at the end?
: R0 I7 Y; Q2 ]# B% j3 q8 w! f我的机器测量一个标准环规小了3微米.是不是有选项去手动补偿或我不得不在最后把它加入到结果？
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# e8 j& U$ }5 J" M* ?# pIs that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?
& d) s, G% [/ u6 d0 Z3微米是不是小于名义值，或3微米小于环规的校准结果？
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its the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm.
. i6 Y7 {$ e' d$ D+ Q正常。如果已经被标定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 读数为10.06mm。
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10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006. ; y+ s( a) |) X6 g+ q0 {
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Perhaps you meant 10.006?
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Is your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the
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stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the # a( D d; s8 ?& @+ Y
& K( |: p2 g S6 [ g. I4 _) i8 W! woptimal "attack angle". ! `/ Y7 p8 Y8 t- a) R
5 Q' T& d' g* s; |, _* c$ kOnce you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the
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ring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times * f7 s' B* H; s
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(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If
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) k' X Z7 p) D9 @8 Rit's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong. 0 }$ Y. F& O+ [, h d/ r
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If it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.
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10.06是60个微米。六个微米是.006 。 & @9 B/ d4 D3 {1 d% L" F- e( K3 z
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可能你认为是10.006?
/ j/ L9 t# s t1 y& h你的cmm是自动还是手动？ 如果它是手动，我的建议是放弃它同时再买台真正的cmm 。如果它是自动, 那么确信你有建议一个探针校正程序。 确定在标准球上的测量正确的。 确 A0 X6 y2 z+ I0 c* M+ u. k
5 W4 S& S) u3 c) u4 @) R7 t) j: T定点是以正确的位置和最佳的法线角度去接触标准球.
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一旦你有一个校准测头的程序,你应该做一些测试.校准探针和检查环规多次。测量中重新调整环规位置。在测量中你可能想重复调整它但是小心不要影响它的温度
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然后，重复这整个程序多次（包括重复校准探针） 如果在这里你见到的差异超过.003mm(我预计它会）, 那么你看到的这3个微米是噪音。如果它是超过.03mm, 那么那些地方可能' G. q# e/ [$ h
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5 U' R5 B) p' @3 M$ ]0 E如果它处于中间，同时你想更要的效果.如果可能的，试一个较短的测针。 # a5 t; t; l! n: N$ O5 e# G) J
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Agreed Ken,/ ]+ }2 F' Y1 K, W: l
The biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I ' f; k+ m1 P% ~ |
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realise the choice is not always there. : M5 c6 H7 I0 i! _! t- ~
& k8 J. k% c7 h9 {3 RI always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder $ i C4 m$ o, W
4 E6 x- K3 p2 Q) A/ R6 Vto the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure.
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2 k8 M" J2 D! G8 OThe other matters to add up are, 1 O& ~ o; f! u
the uncertainty of measurement of the machine : ! r' X/ e/ f2 E/ d r
the actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ): / b: E% S+ D" k1 E P1 y! b
the algorithm used for the dia result :6 ^2 B- O5 K5 J7 r1 i& c9 g
room conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :
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& B( b# P8 D; pGood luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere. + J+ y5 f6 K" y
同意肯恩，
2 L! }' ], F4 i; I9 [% P& g这个方法最好是用最大的球茎和最短的探针长度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20会也减小效果，但是我认为问题并不在那里。
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我总是通过环规的中心设置我的基准面(测量圆柱),虽然这些环规从圆柱到外圆面是非常一致的,单你仅仅是不确 ; j* J3 O w% M' `0 J) B# @
0 E0 N5 ?) G( M: }其他因素加起来是，
: d/ X/ L: K( C9 J% R ?机器的测量的不确定： ! `1 v' n/ B5 n
环规实际的校准结果（不是被标的值）: ; T5 J9 M- a. F" ~. o
结果圆的运算法则：
" J$ A& H/ c# C8 m房间环境（临时湿度） :
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G.P找到的3微米误差就在里面,祝你幸运!
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- Y! ?. r2 P1 g+ v) m" WIs it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right? ) \5 \( x _# h3 E
. z& t% X! G) W( z# Q在直径测量之前有必要定位环规。我已经某处读我们需要制造 对准直径测量.是吗？
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It's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns, : e! F& b! F+ @
$ R* y0 _8 o5 t5 l R- Xthen use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface.
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That includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.$ ^$ B: D. B- z: W" Z$ E; |
$ r U7 h# J% Y$ aAs a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ? : p8 O( w) a% Y3 v. I% c
它只是我个人的意见 G.P. ，如果你想尝试达到3个微米， ' H: B, M* }9 l- ^0 V
/ W- ^; E! A4 @$ f4 D ?& O/ E0 W使用所有的方法(尽力而为),在测量任意一个点都要垂直于表面。 " K) u# M, K8 B* Y3 M2 l# Q! }
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那包括在测量直径之前排校准环规。* U3 g' k+ m* G0 z8 {% K, x' S1 W
+ d- F1 E. ^) A( G& y1 I8 S9 c稍微有点好奇，环规校准报告说环规尺寸是所少？ , ~* v' m, J, u4 K/ W$ Q- x: j! _4 V
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0 m* L. s) b- _7 g+ i0 aI would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage.
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! N' o7 B4 K7 y9 a( l4 t我会把它作为一个圆柱来测量。设定我的坐标系为圆柱坐标系同时在环规中逐渐提高测量圆! z1 K3 x! y1 O7 i
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& b7 Z* O; F1 u2 Q0 Y! n5 h& vYou are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!( l5 t& c' P/ L9 _# t/ B1 m
V) ^& j1 A0 z" T& yWhat type of machine? Manual or CNC
8 N7 w$ d5 J* \& R) jWhat type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP200
2 M! w: ^) j9 ~/ L2 sWhat length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm
& N/ t* w% \) | A+ e nWhat is the temperature in the room?
# l$ l2 t# z7 f, `" q5 b! Y* k" AWhat diameter is the ring gauge?' l" [, `9 [; b
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Let's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5 ( \9 h- f$ K: g4 j$ ~3 x4 m
! U% O$ h8 \& L& O y3 Jpeople breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.
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' F1 C% W& }; y; E- W0 M你试图测量一个直径只有3微米的偏差？！
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9 s2 O& J/ o" `& F8 W8 k哪类机器？手动或自动
: t- I- T3 D# h2 g# _哪类探头？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP200
- H" c# ~. [. B+ _探针长度为多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米# t; B T1 R u% i* u
房间中，温度多少？
+ H6 R6 [, z# ^; ~4 o; H! R$ e环规直径为多少？
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让我们正视它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果机器的附近站立的1个人呼吸 真和明天5个人呼吸都能影响你的测量。 |
楼主: 吟啸徐行
楼主
发表于 2009-3-16 19:15:15
