英文三坐标论坛的一点翻译

吟啸徐行

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4 R9 a+ q2 r: f; v9 [5 ~1 P. . and of course that the masterball is
calibrated, with the calibration result
: X. e, W& d! o4 Dused in the software
6 z; o" M- s) z% b, S+ T  Q- yIs it calibrated Golden Pine ?.

而且当然标准球是校正过的，校准结果已经在软件中用了。
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Ofcourse yes.The master ball has dia of 20mm but i have input its value in the software according to the certificate that is 20.002mm.I think i am right.am i?i am measuring ring gage dia with the probe of length more than 3 inches with ball dia 6 mm.In small ring gages , the difference in dias are less but a i move to bigger gages , the difference goes to 10 microns.why its varying gage to gage of different sizes?
Anotehr thing when i auto calibrated this probe , the software has calculated its dia as 5.661,5.471,5.767,5.787 against 6mm .why the measured dia is so small.i think this thing is introducing error in my readings from this probe?Any suggestions plz.
当然。标准球为20毫米，但是根据证书我在软件中输入它数值为20.002 毫米。我自认为是对的.对吗？我用一根长度超过 3 英寸球直径为6毫米的探针测量环规.在小的环规中，直径误差很小.但是一旦我换成一个大点的环规,偏差能达到10个微米.为什么不同环规之间有差异.
另外，当我自动校准测头的时候,对于6豪米探针软件校准直径值为5.661,5.471,5.767,5.787。为什么测量直径如此小,我猜是不是从测头中引入的误差到测量结果中.那位能给点建议
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/ C8 G9 y# X( q5 f# w0 ^! VAre you sure the ring gages are round?
You can verify by printing out a plot of the roundness then rotating the ring gage and running again. If the shape of the plot rotates with the ring gage
: Q' E; P% r3 o) Wthen the ring gage is out of round.

( n. [* O$ |9 M  zIf you can get 6 microns with a 3" long probe, you're doing pretty darn good.
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你确定环规是是圆的吗？
5 L$ ^4 m. }3 B# e& e你可以通过打印出一个标准圆然后旋转环规。如果环规外形超出绘制的圆，那么环规已经不圆了。
: U9 n# X  m# {* ^如果你能用一个3" 探针仅偏差6个微米 ，你做的已经非常好了


Actually, I may have misunderstood.

When you say 10 microns, you mean the difference between the actual ring gage diameter and the diameter the cmm measures the ring gage?
( s+ B: T! t& }( eThis is basically due to the fact that the probe is calibrated on a 3d sphere and is averaged out based on that. If you are more concerned about 2d
$ i! c2 B+ u9 _- N% `calibration, the best way to go is to measure a calibrated ring gage and manually adjust the diameter of the probe to make the ring gage dia check correctly.

2 T) U: ?  F  P( kAssuming that the software you are running allows you to do that. Unless the software will allow you to calibrate based on a 2d measurement, that would be
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easier.

" M1 J9 z6 }% n+ s* t; B, XAlso, if you do this, you can monitor the roundness readings which can detect problems with the probe system or stylus. Stylus wear, dirt, probe module wear,
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实际上，我可能已经误解。

当你说 10个微米的时候，你的偏差意思是实际的环规直径和cmm 测量环规直径？
  H  u% E4 i8 q% {本质上由于探针值是基于在一个3D球体上被校正并平均得出。如果你更关心2d校准,最好办法为测量一个标准的环规,手动调整探针的直径确保环规测量值正确。 如果你运行的软件
* Y3 X1 X8 F  X% W$ k1 [' o  |允许你这样做。 除非软件将会允许你校正基于2d测量，那样的话就要比较容易了。
同时, 如果你这样做，你们检查下影响圆度因为能发现测头系统或探针:探针磨损,污垢，测头模块磨损等等

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8 Y# K7 f: [; a( q, Y( y  N0 Smy software donot allow to compensate the probr dia manually.wat can i do now?
7 x" I9 q3 Z4 E9 j我的软件还不允许手动补偿探针直径.我现在怎么办？
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; D& b. b; q7 e, P) a+ z; ZHi G.P.,
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( l8 T; B, d7 l0 FHow many points are you taking on the ring gauge ?
' y7 s& S3 V/ g3 P* H; rAre you setting up the main datum as a cylinder through the gauge, or a plane on top of the gauge ?
What algorithm are you using to calculate the dia ?
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" K0 X8 y7 R5 V' P; K8 j: u6 T5 R* i嗨 G.P.，
6 f$ Y' i' [- X6 i) u你测量环规打了多少点？
你有没有建议一个圆柱坐标系通过环规或者在环规表面建议一个基准面
) D9 U1 `' i  F/ G% A你使用什么运算法则来教转探针直径？(指外接圆法,内接圆法,和最小二乘法等等)


GoldenPine. Don't worry about the probe calibrating smaller than its real diameter, that's normal and understandable. What you do need to worry about is the variation of the "calibrated" diameters of your probe stylus which are HUGE. I've just checked the two 6mm probe on my machine and the variations are from 5.987 - 5.991 for 14 probe orientations (swivel length 93mm) and 5.913-5.922 for 17 orientations (swivel length 138mm). I avoid using the 138mm length probe
unless I absolutely have to and it hasn't been cleaned for a while!

I think you need to get your CMM serviced and calibrated or you are, frankly, wasting your time.

GoldenPine。 不要担心探针校值小于其真实值，那是正常的和可以理解的。你需要关注的是你的探针" 校正 " 后的直径的大小。
9 z8 T3 p& s5 @3 {" L- r4 p我刚刚用两个6毫米探针在我的机器实验了下:从5.987- 5.991为14校正方向（旋转半径 93 毫米）和17方向（旋转半径138毫米）5.913-5.922.
- Z$ q, x  D! `5 O我尽量不使用那138毫米探针,除非我唯一适用和它不能被排除
3 r! S* H+ B" l+ H; @我认为你应该联系CMM服务工程师来校正或者你来做，坦白地，现在你在浪费时间。

吟啸徐行

未完待续

* m, L- Y  E, y# p回国际化:估计老美没有几个人认识中文,啥时候帮他们也翻译下,

finleyfeng

看完了  顶一下

吟啸徐行

This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add.
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He started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a

2 Q/ z  i# r. I2 k5 rcmm talk about programming one.

I've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.
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Maybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like
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you...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so
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that I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works
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for.

The only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so
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% e! t7 r4 t# j3 f2 Athat they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly
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pray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on.

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0 w/ Z" [' G9 C. ~6 x$ J这一个人基本上没有经验，而你们正在免费通过互联网完整培训他，我可能稍微增加点难度。

$ z- P; y4 W; J7 @$ U9 B% ?他从自己校正他的机器的各种非常愚蠢的主意开始，现在我们容易看出他一个甚至不能正确操作cmm的人。
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" v1 C# \/ Q) q/ ]; x我做出牺牲,阅读一堆章节并被他开始问各种荒谬最基本的cmm 观念。

可能我应该更加接纳他刚进来就说:我基本对cmm了解为零,但是我成为你那样...你能帮助我吗?我从那里开始?但是我发现自己不停的被问的吃惊.我完全理解,当我得到这个故事必
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; u9 e5 O) L- r4 j3 }然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即将发生倒闭

我看他服务的公司最后的结果是财务破产作为他'程序'的一部分他们计划调整这部分以便他们在cmm报告中看起来好点.他们把这个给客户.最多被拒绝或者在使用中完全失败.当我
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读他那职位的时候,我真诚的起到他不是做方向盘或者转向制动器,安全带....这个列表继续



. N0 L( ^& o; II (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade.

Let's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.
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Nope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.

; X* R; q0 S3 o4 L9 RIn fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that

he's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE

; i0 r( F4 A* b( G9 [THE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!

Analogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The
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, w+ I7 T0 k: V2 |+ qcar's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?
我(象你们中很多人一样）是一个经过专门培训对质量吹毛求疵的专业人士。
* w; g9 F  t" a如果我能找任何的错误或的问题任何事，让我们见到那一个区段已经在他的最后职位中陈述。
不，不能在错误中找一些线索。 我将会说，他脑子坏掉了。

事实上,我在过去怀疑过很长时间这个家伙是不是真的是一个有经验的cmm怪人,他仅仅是打乱我们的思路,但是我确认他是一个卓越的人.这是不用讨论的,他的情况应该被当作一个
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/ T; ^/ {( t8 K7 e# }* b8 W优秀的学习案例:为什么鉴定为cmm怪人,就想机器一样
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: h( t# ]9 {1 ?6 @$ H5 c类似：如果一辆车辆已经被检查，登记以及许可，它为什么不是最佳状态？ 为什么那操作员应该被训练而且得到许可的？ 小车还好，所有的工作都一样！ 操作员仅仅是凑凑热闹

，对不对？ 怎么会出错？


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8 G: y8 }- g, J1 T$ ohi,
i think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people.
( l) F6 @0 o) a/ R  L8 s, n1 {% v$ C/ TGoldenPine
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嗨，
+ o) E2 S, S. ?0 m  h, D. {我认为，你们是从我这郁闷.我真的抱歉。但是还是感激帮助者。
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# ?  ^* ?; h2 Z4 [my machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results
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at the end?
6 s" X9 W5 R5 t4 Q! _/ M我的机器测量一个标准环规小了3微米.是不是有选项去手动补偿或我不得不在最后把它加入到结果？
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Is that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?
3微米是不是小于名义值，或3微米小于环规的校准结果？


its the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm.
正常。如果已经被标定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 读数为10.06mm。
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, z* l8 ~1 y) x' w" v+ ?10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006.

Perhaps you meant 10.006?
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Is your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the
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6 E1 F$ x) v8 ]+ u9 H/ R- T2 Ostylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the

( u! ^  o/ \" z: p0 K: doptimal "attack angle".
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; @* i1 q9 j/ e1 c' d/ x2 S: S6 s- {2 OOnce you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the

, n* b: Y4 o2 c" vring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times
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(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If
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8 }! k7 F4 R9 ~3 git's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong.
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If it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.

10.06是60个微米。六个微米是.006 。
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% S0 o, W% I8 K, T3 d可能你认为是10.006?
你的cmm是自动还是手动？ 如果它是手动，我的建议是放弃它同时再买台真正的cmm 。如果它是自动, 那么确信你有建议一个探针校正程序。 确定在标准球上的测量正确的。 确

定点是以正确的位置和最佳的法线角度去接触标准球.
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+ {; k7 @8 \$ X8 _( b% I3 Q' U8 R: ~一旦你有一个校准测头的程序,你应该做一些测试.校准探针和检查环规多次。测量中重新调整环规位置。在测量中你可能想重复调整它但是小心不要影响它的温度
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, X- |1 k  G) C) B7 W* B" v/ n然后，重复这整个程序多次（包括重复校准探针） 如果在这里你见到的差异超过.003mm(我预计它会）, 那么你看到的这3个微米是噪音。如果它是超过.03mm, 那么那些地方可能
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% x+ k" y' i9 b* a, Q, B* t8 M有错误。

如果它处于中间，同时你想更要的效果.如果可能的，试一个较短的测针。


8 J8 h. X' \, H- s5 g& ~9 W/ {Agreed Ken,
The biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I

# ?4 H; J. I. g' |9 X( m  wrealise the choice is not always there.

I always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder
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# h2 l) a+ z1 Qto the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure.
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The other matters to add up are,
the uncertainty of measurement of the machine :
the actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ):
the algorithm used for the dia result :
room conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :
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4 o/ R+ i6 j2 H: T" a/ d+ H5 YGood luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere.
& U/ J  b: x5 S2 ]( X  d同意肯恩，
这个方法最好是用最大的球茎和最短的探针长度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20会也减小效果，但是我认为问题并不在那里。

6 ?4 f0 `! H# x5 M我总是通过环规的中心设置我的基准面(测量圆柱),虽然这些环规从圆柱到外圆面是非常一致的,单你仅仅是不确

1 i3 M( [9 H- |/ p- _其他因素加起来是，
3 J0 W- y6 v5 t机器的测量的不确定：
5 L7 q; Q. V" b5 Y* j  p+ G环规实际的校准结果（不是被标的值）:
0 R8 j1 M1 a" ~* r结果圆的运算法则：
房间环境（临时湿度） :


G.P找到的3微米误差就在里面,祝你幸运!
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Is it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right?
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在直径测量之前有必要定位环规。我已经某处读我们需要制造 对准直径测量.是吗？
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3 p# U" u) l+ `( [! \It's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns,
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then use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface.
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That includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.
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" A, R* W$ @) h+ e- U# {As a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ?
它只是我个人的意见 G.P. ，如果你想尝试达到3个微米，
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1 [6 J! Q9 y3 i8 c7 C+ U/ n+ c4 Z使用所有的方法(尽力而为),在测量任意一个点都要垂直于表面。

那包括在测量直径之前排校准环规。
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! Y/ l  R2 ]; U  `2 w稍微有点好奇，环规校准报告说环规尺寸是所少？
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8 |7 `: K, I9 [" GI would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage.
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, N' Z3 b& L! [  p7 ?我会把它作为一个圆柱来测量。设定我的坐标系为圆柱坐标系同时在环规中逐渐提高测量圆
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You are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!
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What type of machine? Manual or CNC
What type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP200
4 M; Q. C) M' B) ]% \- HWhat length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm
What is the temperature in the room?
' ^& K1 \8 e$ w: T- Z3 k& b% Q6 ~What diameter is the ring gauge?

3 B" W  Q6 c4 k6 Z6 z0 K& p% ]' qLet's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5

6 i6 M0 _( ^5 }/ Mpeople breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.

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你试图测量一个直径只有3微米的偏差？！
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6 P9 u: e! y+ y6 z, s哪类机器？手动或自动
$ w5 t" H( v% |9 |. o哪类探头？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP200
探针长度为多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米
房间中，温度多少？
环规直径为多少？
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让我们正视它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果机器的附近站立的1个人呼吸 真和明天5个人呼吸都能影响你的测量。

国际化

未完待续
  a' B: _1 U( ~. C# y0 V& T) g3 R
/ b" D# l& }' g回国际化:估计老美没有几个人认识中文,啥时候帮他们也翻译下,
- H6 ?+ h& @# k# a" ]4 n8 v吟啸徐行 发表于 2009-3-15 17:43

我当然是用英语告诉他们这里是中国最好的机械论坛之一

吟啸徐行

回国际化:我当然知道你是英文告诉他们这个论坛好,但是他们最多也就在这边瞄一眼,机械社区的内容估计老外能看懂的不多

胡雷

辛苦版主  翻译的东东很实用

吟啸徐行

想知道国外三坐标有多少种软件吗？呵呵，这个估计是欧美比较常用的
% p+ l4 f5 N5 d/ H5 Thttp://www.prolinksoftware.com/product_calc_machine.aspx

吟啸徐行

Renishaw styli tip cleaning for probe calibration
9 l+ t: ?2 W. X/ R2 m) C3 e7 P为探针校准,清洁Renishaw探针红宝石球

4 N' p3 J) ?; C2 n. l) w+ ?Obviously before probe calibration, the cal sphere and Styli should be clean and free from debree, which would effect the results of the calibration.
When i first joined my company a simple wipe with the fingers or peice of rag had sufficed.
! q& w: N2 l" C9 h7 G% z* MHowever I noticed while inpecting the styli under a microscope, the ruby styli was littered with debree such as small peices of aluminium, cast iron, small hairs etc.
Because of this I started to clean the styli and cal sphere with solvent based liquids such as Geneclean, SBP2 & currently Amberklene.
Any thoughts on my process, is a solvent likley to have a detremental effect on the ruby,any alternatives, what do you do at your company?  

显然在探针校准前,标准球和探针应该被清洁，灰尘有可能导致校准结果的偏差。
当我刚加入公司的时候,只是简单的用手或者碎布擦拭就可以了。
# d  ~3 M% Z9 i: C7 k; V但当我在显微镜下观察探针时，红宝石探针沾满灰尘,例如微小的铝屑,铸铁屑，头发屑等等
& [5 G3 c& d( i1 o" P以此我开始用液体溶剂清洁标探针和标准球,SBP2或Amberklene。
' w8 R2 Z4 o$ F: ^7 C在我的理解中，溶剂有可能对红宝石产生不良效果，有没有其他选择,你的公司怎么做的啊？  
; t) P+ D: b* ?- N" w1 h) c
I generally use a lens cleaning cloth or one of the cloths supplied for cleaning Gauge block sets, although I tend to keep the cloths bespoke for each use ( one for styli only etc ).  
我通常使用镜头清洁布或者量块清洁布，尽管我倾向为每个提高一份清洁布。（为探针专门准备一个)
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3 M6 G/ U7 R3 P2 J$ O# dI use denatured alcohol & Kimwipes EX-L delicate task wipers (Kimberly Clark). FYI - They are made in Roswell
我使用工业酒精或者Kimwipes EX-L精致手帕纸. （Kimberly Clark） FYI －格鲁吉亚制造。

, t) M' S4 A7 kUse alcahol and a lint-free cloth... (Renishaw Tech)
Do not use solvents such as acetone etc...
' W- h/ D( i% b' |使用酒精和没有棉絮的布。 （Renishaw 技术）
! @3 U9 T' b. }7 x不要使用溶剂，例如丙酮等

liguangfei

嘎嘎，你就把这些对话打包好了哇，，，，